I’ve received a number of emails asking about the Courses in runes offered by Ragnar at the Denali Institute, and by Edred Thorsson. The question usually asks about the rune courses, and the titles gained through their completion. It is an important question, because it differentiates two divergent beliefs in how the runes should be used.
So, basically, Ragnar and the Denali Institute are the same thing. You can also look at Edred Thorsson’s stuff, he has a course of books, and then I believe you take a test. Thorsson’s work seems very ‘occult’, though he also goes by his real name, Stephen Flowers, publishing his academic research under that name. He has a wide interest in eastern religions, hermetic philosophy and so on… so reconstructing the pagan traditions under his ways is somewhat futile.
Ragnar’s stuff is perhaps unnecessarily New Age-y, depending on your tastes. And it definitely seemed Americanized to me, but I owe a lot to it because it is very thorough and well laid out. I’ve surveyed the entirety of both teachers, yet I prefer depending on my own interpretations and intuitions, and I borrow from others where I agree with them.
The term ‘Erulian’ – which the Denali Institute bestows as title upon those who completely master their several-year-long course (or just pay the money to fast-track) is simply a variant on the word ‘Heruli’ or ‘Erilaz’ (which means ‘Man’). Below I’ve included a quote from a page on the subject. You can find a lot of information here: http://nightsoul.com/erulian/herulian
No “Heruli” are mentioned in Anglo-Saxon, Frankish or Norse chronicles, so it is assumed they were known in the north and west by another name. Encyclopædia Britannica 1911 suggested that, since the name Heruli itself is identified by many with the Anglo-Saxon eorlas (”nobles”), Old Saxon erlos (”men”), the singular of which (erilaz) frequently occurs in the earliest Northern inscriptions, that “Heruli” may have been a title of honor. If this is true, then this is a term pre-Norse cast system. The original system would have placed the “Earls” as a name synonymous with “Shaman”, and thus the word changing into a common word for “Nobleman” by the time of the Norse.
It is my own — perhaps stubborn — belief that you do not need someone ELSE to bestow the title of Erulian upon you. The ancient idea of nobility is that you ACT like a noble. It is not blood, necessarily, that appoints you, nor is it a CASTE, such as we know from the medieval times, therefor it is not hierarchical. Ragnar and Denali, also Thorsson, may indeed believe they have the knowledge and authority to bestow some kind of status upon you, and others may believe in that authority as well. If they have actually found authentic value from that, more power to them.
I don’t. But I agree that the more sources, the better.
Personally, I would caution you against Titles. I would recommend you take a long moment to reflect what it means to depend on someone else to tell you how and when you’ve become a master of something so esoteric as the runes and the intricacies of your own personal inner-world.
I do not condone organized religion, and that is clear from my site’s content I think. There’s no ‘cult’ or ‘religion’ or ‘denomination’ of any sort in the Rune Secrets project. Everyone from beginner to expert is an equal, with equal curiosity for the infinite insight that the runes themselves ONLY assist with, but do not dictate. It is You, not the Runes, ultimately, that will have to be the master of Yourself.
You are not ‘Enlightened’ just because someone else says you are so. You cannot perform ‘magic’ using a scientific or methodological instruction, or else magic would be recognized by science quite easily. It isn’t. You are going to find that the magic you develop is personally tailored to you. Just as a dream dictionary cannot interpret your dreams: Carl Jung has written at length on that idea, for instance in ‘Man and His Symbols’, a great classic of psychology, and an essential read.
Interpreting your own life with the runes, and discovering aspects of yourself and the universe, is entirely your responsibility. That is what is so amazing about the Runes… they are not a religion. They are a tool for gaining insight and wisdom. Wisdom is spontaneous, not planned. There’s no wisdom-shaped cookie-cutter that can be applied to every situation. You no doubt have already seen that each rune can either mean radically different things when applied to different questions, or can point out the subtleties between ideas that distinguish them from being identical.
I endorse “Thinking for Yourself”. I endorse asking yourself hard questions and spending the time on them, letting them really sink in. The ideas found on the Rune Secrets website reflect the strength of my own “Thinking for Myself” method, but ultimately they are, and can only be, simply my own favored interpretations, even after all the discussion that goes on between Mahryan and I, and other members of our small community. No matter how many people agree, truth is not REALLY formed through agreement. You must reject what doesn’t make sense or resonate with you, and adopt only what your understanding agrees with… and find truth through your own efforts.
One of the things that doesn’t make sense to ME are Titles, bestowed by others, Erulian included. Titles are finite, hierarchical, binding. I believe in Names. Instead of seeking your Title, maybe you need to “Make a Name For Yourself”. A Title is a shortcut to a Name, and a title doesn’t guarantee a reputation, or recognition. The first is given, the second is made. The magic of naming far exceeds the bureaucracy of title-bearing.
Remember:
You can’t stray from the path, because there is no actual path to follow.
You become an ‘Erulian’ when you act like a Erulian. Yet perhaps it’s just better to become Yourself… whoever that is, you will have much more grace, integrity and authenticity than anything else you become. What do you think?
Sincerely,
Tyriel
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Tyriel,
I think what you said is right on. I am seeking to learn the runes to know about myself and who I am. I like your site because it helps me to learn and develop my own ideas about the runes, but gives me a basis. Just reading a book and taking a course to get a title does not mean you understand. I have tarot but there was just something about them that didn’t work for me. I have always been facinated by runes and now I am trying to learn. I don’t want to read for other people, I want to learn this to understand myself and the things going on in my life and how I can be better. I believe in spirit not religion
Yes thanks for the comment Tyriel. I’ve mentioned before that, for me, this is what makes Rune Secrets a unique place. We share thoughts and learn together here – acknowledging that ancient understanding and wisdom must be re-discovered and re-applied to the time of our current lives.
For some, a more organized and structured approach as offered by either Thorsson or Denali may be very valuable (and we can all gain from reading their materials). Thoughts gained by anyone taking such courses will be welcome on Rune Secrets I’m sure. And, there are some well-know Runsters who studied with Thorsson and then followed there own paths – notably Freyer Asswyn. Don’t forget to check her site from time to time – lots of interesting commentary and materials at http://www.aswynn.co.uk/index.php .
I have been studying runes for as long as I remember. Because of this, I strive to follow a path of correct action. I have read many sourcebooks and endlessly searching for knowledge about the subject, from Egyptian history to Blavatsky, Thorsson, and I do subscribe to the Denali course where I find Ragnar’s material to be profound. These concepts cannot be grasped in any fast-track, although fast-track is a way to own the valuable reference material in its entirety, and then take your time with it. I have found substantiation of theory in musicological reference works, although I am a simple person not a scholar. It takes years of correspondence, contemplation before exercise as if you are serious, it should be approached most reverently. It is a life journey. Historical facts interest me, not easy hard to find. I am trying to unravel why and how this became my calling….I am not Nordic. What is all this? I want to connect the dots. As for the title, Erulian, Shaman, Prophet, Maji…if you are one you were born one. Simple. They are found called by different names in every religion, in every part of the world and perhaps beyond. This subject matter may enlighten you, but healthier if you try to use it to grow and inspire, and not try to position yourself to rule above anyone. I do not believe that what the “Erulian” title was intended to be, and yes, it always unhealthy to try to be something you were never born meant to be. I very rarely respond to posts. I listen a lot. It would be my great honor to be able to correspond or converse directly to anyone who has attained a high degree of understanding of rune knowledge by whatever name we call them: Teacher? Master? Doctor? Priest? Erulian? Betty? Franz? Does it matter? How do I really know that they are for real? They have studied? They are bonefide to convey the truth about the subject matter? The term Erulian ensures me the person has been prepared, it does not mean they a ruler. Besides, in comparison: Does the “Mafia” walk up to you and say, “hi, we are the Mafia?” Not the real deal. No. They operate in secret. They protect their status. It is the same. Obviously the true “Keeper” “Erulian” or “Master” or “Teacher” of this subject matter has done a good job to protect the information throughout history, and so we may never really know the historical truth, they dont teach it at school, it is considered “out of norm”. It designed to be this way. There is chaos everywhere but we can use knowledge (at what ever level) and stand courageously before it using whatever tools we are provided to confront it effectively. I have been called by many names, I would like to able to identify someone who has achieved a mastery of this subject matter, what name will they know me by when I face them?
Thanks for bringing up the structure issue, Mahryan, that is true. Structure does definitely help in some ways.
Sunday: Thank you for the long comment, it’s nice to know you’ve been out there listening and have decided to share some thoughts with us. I think that if you hang around Rune Secrets enough, you’re bound to one day face someone who has achieved a mastery of this subject matter… hopefully in the mirror!
I enjoyed this article immensely. As someone who is very new to the vast amount of information concerning Runes, I feel at ease knowing any thoughts I may wish to share will be accepted here as equal contributions.
I greatly respect anyone who has dedicated so much time and effort into having a greater understanding of Runes and Northern Traditions (this includes those people who have taken the courses at Denali, as well as people who are ‘self-taught’.) Both have a great amount of personal resource to share with everyone else and both are deserving of equal recognition and respect.
The way I understood the indication to Ragnar’s material being “Americanized” is that in so much of the Western world, we find ourselves in a constant competition for “Titles” within various hierarchies. It is, perhaps, simply a challenge to grasp a concept of a world where all men and women stand equal in their ability to learn, utilize and appreciate new knowledge and use it in a way they see best fits their lifestyles. We are expected, on mass, to follow a set of rules, a chronological structure, and to be awarded with a “Name” upon completion. This method is successful for some, but it is not the only way. I think it is more thorough to study all information offered from all sources and make your own decisions about how you wish to utilize that knowledge. It is not necessarily important to have earned a name in the process, unless that is PERSONALLY important to YOU.
Regardless of title or lack of title, I am humbled by the extensive knowledge that dedicated individuals possess, and this opinion is not dependent on how the information was acquired.
Thanks for the post, it makes those of us who are new to this subject feel less intimidated by the task of learning about it.
Thank you, Elven, for taking the time to read and post a comment. That spirit of equality, and sharing, is so vitally important to this project.
I would not dare call myself a guru. Teacher is bad enough. I’m just sharing my notes and my thoughts. As for my certification, title, status, affiliation…
… I would prefer the body of insights contained on the site to speak for itself, to those who need it!
Dear Mahryan,After reading your wise-filled caution,my eyes went again to the spiral combination lock picture. Thought it represented your instruction concisely__when we use the runes for personal use-we only have our own combination of numbers to unlock and open our own insight and intuition! Sharing as we do with you and others on this site furthers our learning and wisdom in Growth and Learning–don’t suppose there is an end to learning–probably no reason for certificate–we’d just need another and another as we grow and grow.
Americanization, indeed! Search out the original Thirteenth Amendment, aka “Titles of Nobility” amendment for much insight into “titles.” What is, is; and as for what is not, the old adage holds: “no matter how thin you slice it, it’s still baloney” lol
That said, Dr. Flowers points out how the “establishment” (titled?) publishers keep issuing rehashes of things we already know instead of offering new (to us at least) insight and material. Not to worry! There are things to learn about the Runes that you may discern if you have eyes to see. It may come in a flash, or it may take years. Keep up the good work!
Dollarthief: You point out something interesting that I want to address… ‘the establishment’, well… I don’t know what that is. Flowers is a kind of establishment of his own. So am I, I suppose, since I have an established website about the runes.
I want to keep reinforce what I’m really focusing on though, the main message, and that is… if you aren’t thinking for yourself most of the time, you’re using someone else’s mind and experience to solve your unique and individual problems and challenges. Just take what you understand, of everyone’s work, and rigorously test it out, apply it where it works and dump what doesn’t make sense… perhaps it will make sense later on in your journey. I often find things I didn’t understand a year or two ago that make more sense now.
And then there’s stuff that’s just nonsense. Unfortunately, we’re all guilty of ‘bullshitting’ sometimes. Personally I try to keep that to a minimum here. On the other hand, if you don’t take risks from time to time, your understanding will stagnate.
Like dollarthief says… it may come in a flash, or it may take years. But it will come, if you depend on, and believe in, the power of your own ability to interpret and learn.
My cautions are only a personal viewpoint. If you strongly object, and prefer to depend on a particular authority, then do what you must. Just don’t ‘look down’ on others because you disapprove of their ways. That is a sure barrier to wisdom of many sorts.
Thanks for your post. I have been following your website for some time but have remained silent. This is jsut the post I was waiting for. I stand with you on this matter. I look forward to future correspondence.
What a refreshing site! The honor and reverence given to runes! Ahh … I’ll be back!
Why is there that the Inguz/space as i call it activates later?
and allows this imagination to come to existence and also the different mainframes within this imagination that allows one to understand things better.
Its like one either have a place of which we can create knowingly or one does not.
Why does two becomes three?
Like today i noticed that the less we have the more we share.
When i was eating meatballs and macaronis so to not get just macaronis i had to cut the meatballs in half to make one piece.
“More is less” depends how we value and to what degree can one change the values one has?
Wonderful site…glad I was lead here…I look forward to the study of runes to enhance my communication abilities…Thank-you to all who contribute…Hope All is Well
>>It is You, not the Runes, ultimately, that will have to be
>>the master of Yourself.
>>You are not ‘Enlightened’ just because someone else says you are so.
I love this site, and have great respect for how you present information here. The above 2 quotes from your cautionary posting are a great example of why I resonate with so much of what you have to say. Both statements are so true, it is sad they have to be stated … but I am glad you do. As we each own the part we play in giving birth to ourselves, we gain a perspective that can’t easily be put in words. Runes are a wonderful tool to that end, but they are just that: a tool.
Thank you so much for being a wonderful resource!
Hey Tyriel,
Totally with you on your scepticism about titles and runic gurus.
One though I have…you mention the runes are not a religion. That’s true of course, but they are deeply connected to a mythological culture. Archaeologically speaking the use of the runes declined largely into triviality after the coming of Christianity. They seemed to do much better in a pre-Christian / Heathen spiritual context.
I mention this because while I dig your call for people to take personal, subjective responsibility for their learning, it might be also beneficial to remember that the mythology situates the runes, just as the runes are deeply connected to imagery from pre-Christian Germanic culture and are more easily deciphered if one has some historical understanding (not just reading the Icelandic Sagas, which were written centuries after the Conversion and probably don’t reflect much real information about Heathen magic at all).
For me personally, the runes are bound up in my devotion to Odin. Looking at archaeological finds and myths it appears that the gods Thor and Frey had a bit to do with them (and perhaps Bragi, too), and the mythic poems explain that there were runes for men, gods, dwarves, elves, etc, etc. Mysteries upon mysteries open up when we look to these sources.
None of this is to say that anyone has to make a religious commitment in order to use the runes…but rather than it is helpful (and indeed inspiring) to grasp the runes’ original spiritual and historical (and cultural) context…and also respectful to both the runes and their creators to do so. This is an important area where Blum falls down, incidentally – his books may get people into runes, but many folk (myself included) soon find them to be superficial and vacuous. Then the search begins with fresh determination…
Keep up the good work,
Henry
So happy you stopped by Henry! Your commentary is always thoughtful and informed.
grateful for the sharing that is happening here. so many opinions, one has to think for oneself which spurs the inntuitive understanding needed to make the runes relevant to our lives.
thanks to all here for the thought provoking comments.
i do agree that titles are irrelevant, character and widom are paramount and comes from within.
Hi Henry:
I totally agree with you that we need to understand the Runes in the historical and spiritual context. I find It interesting, too, that the larger spiritual, community context of the runes has been raised in several places over the last few days. Divination is often the initial attraction to the Runes. I think that this is because of the deep innate drive we have to better understand ourselves and our existence. It is to be hoped that this initial interest develops into deeper probing and I do think that is what the open encouraging atmosphere on Rune Secrets promotes.
I would like to pose a question for consideration about spirituality versus organized religion. Is the northern runic tradition and honouring the ancestral deities a religion (in the contemporary understanding of organized religion)? Or is it a spiritual way of being – a pathway in the worlds?
Unfortunately, we don’t have many historic sources of reliable information about pagan traditions such as the Northern pathways or Druidism. There is even less on the Norse and Germanic Runic traditions than on Druidism and most of what exists is recorded through the eyes of ‘christian’ invaders. I think that we have to turn to these sources and the recorded mythologies and try to discern through intuition and communication with the Deities the spiritual pathways in the present time.
This is such an important area for discussion. It would be great if there was someone in the Rune Secrets community that is into the historical research who would be willing to do a guest article! Meanwhile, I would really like to hear other views on the religion- spirituality debate.
Hi Mahryan,
Well of course as in most traditional cultures the peoples of Northern Europe didn’t distinguish much between religion and culture. They were seamlessly connected.
As such I feel that when I do things like make sauerkraut or read about European history, well, this is a spiritual practice just as much as preparing a rune sigil or calling on a deity. I am an animist – like my ancestors I see everything as being sentient. So everything we do is spiritual, although of course if we do things in unright ways then that spiritual power can be occluded.
As for religion and spirituality…to me what we call religion is a form of art, a string of images and practices which at their best can provide doors through which we can step into a direct relationship with the divine. In a sense even the runes fall into this category, since that is what they seem to be: doors into a wider bandwidth of experience and understanding.
All of this makes learning about historical culture, mythology, and runes very fruitful for modern folk interested in the runes. The more we dip into the well of memory the more water we have to nourish new gardens.
There is a lot more information about the historical dimensions than you might think, and it is always growing as archaeologists discover more (and archaeology seems to be a better source for understanding the past than a lot of the written records, so this is a double bonus). Runic Amulets & Magic Objects (Mindy MacLeod & Bernard Mees) is a deeply inspiring place to start, you can read a review on my site:
http://www.elhazablaze.com/2010/03/review-runic-amulets-magic-objects-mindy-macleod-bernard-mees/
H
Somehow you double-posted, Henry, so I removed the first, but I left the post that looked more complete.
We offer a rune course, but it does not give you titles, but does reward you with certificates if you complete the course, we do this to teach and educate not to make you feel like some guru or runes…feel free to request information, we are just re-developing the course right now, but it will be totally E-Learning in Flash format…it is pretty neat actually, I was testing it yesterday, and it allows you to pause to read, then complete the quiz at the end of each lesson, and there are suplimentary workbooks in PDF, we are trying to be a GREEN school, no paper.
I am a person who is looking for more understanding and knowledge of the runes.
There’s a lot of talk about Thorsson and Ragnar being “runic gurus,” and the tone is that somehow that’s a bad thing. Well, really, they are just two men who have devoted a serious part of their lives to studying Runic lore in particular, and esoteric lore in general, and who have made their learning and insights available to the greater public via their books, websites, and at-home study courses.
And that’s a grand thing. Yes, yhey charge money and thereby get material recompense, but I’m not seeing either of these men hobnobbing with Donald Trump, so I hazard a guess that the material compensation they’ve received lags behind the hours, days, and years they have put into their teaching.
And then people come along and call them “gurus” and act as if they have done something wrong — as if they are putting themselves up on unattainable pedestals or putting down everyone below them. What’s up with that? Because they use titles? because one gives a title upon mastery of his course? All the time, effort, blood, sweat, and tears they’ve invested in teaching others apparently means nothing?
Guess what. There is nothing wrong with titles. Not a thing. No, you don’t need one — but if you choose to use one, or grant one to someone else, that is a perfectly fine thing. And some people find it easier to structure their lives and studies in formal ways that have definite ‘recognition levels’ with titles built in. Different strokes for different folks, that’s all.
There is most definitely a reverse sort of snobbery at work in the field of esoteric studies. I find that the people who are against titles tend to be more attached to their meanings, and invest more “adjihah” in them, than the ones who actually use them. People get intimidated by other people’s titles and then decide that they problem is the title-holder, or the title itself.
If you are put off by titles, don’t use them — it’s that simple. But don’t hold anything against those who do choose to use them. And please remember that teachers such as Thorsson and Ragnar have given far more than they’ve gotten, and we don’t have to agree with everything they say and do to respect them and to acknowledge their accomplishments.
Thanks for offering a contrary viewpoint, Anna. Thinking for yourself (my prime recommendation above) sometimes includes agreeing with what others have said.
However, I can neither agree that titles confer authority, nor does ‘years’ invested, necessarily. Simply because something is traditionally accepted, ‘old’, ancient does not make it more authoritative either. Oft times, fresh thought trumps accepted notions of wisdom.
Found this site via googling Ragnar’s email contact, which I couldn’t find. I took his course up to Seeker level. Much too new agey with speculation and other generic, easily found info. Before I forget, he had an refute or exception concerning the Golden Rule which I was trying to remember. Anyone know that?
Anyway, I too have given years to delving the runes and Norse myth (Ich bin Celtic). Of course, runic scholarship has mostly taken the magick out of them. According to seasoned researchers most of the literature out there is erroneous. This includes Thorsson’s works as well, being both speculative and eclectic in parts. You need to get those expensive scholarly tomes of your serious.
But I suppose It’s really up to self, Self, the runes and the woods or perhaps Nature (or Nerthus etc). A spirit of devotion towards the Aesir and Vanir (and landvettir or local land spirits) may get the synchronicity going.
Their origins may be moot….but I still feel they were crafted along the lines of the prevailing Perennial Wisdom. This could include kabbalistic thinking as we feel this ultimately predates anything semitic.
Seems to me the author(s) randomly chose when, or not, to employ said lore – which may account for the runes with no apparent parallels in either stave shape or meaning. All meaning that it appears this symbol set as a whole isn’t all that rigorous.
We’ve the aetts…which of course reflects both divisions in the Hebrew and Sanskrit rows. This has to be a remnant of the Perennial Wisdom imo. But even the moniker “Futhark” seems more a clever contrivance – altho some have seen a systematic unfolding of process (throughout the row). Projection?
I myself see parallels betwixt some rune lore and Stan Tenen’s work with Hebrew letters. I’ve bounced this off others as well as Stan(!) and no one seems to agree for some reason. Seems obvious to me and I was going to formalize a small work, but to hell with it.
I ask myself sometimes what the hell I’m doing still playing around with this stuff. Not sure if it’s comfort through familiarization but they do tend to come “in handy” when times get tough. This may be purely imaginary – as in recalling the hard times of our ancestors. A kind of intellectual sop when in emotional need.
I’ve given more time to hermetic kabbalah ala Golden Dawn so I tend to switch back and forth. I’d rather there have been an established Norse Runic Tradition. That is, not today’s eclectic “reconstruction” attempt$.
It looks as if Tyriel might have had the same theoretical background as myself here! Tyr – iel. Now that’s eclectic, says JHVH. I think there is even a Tiriel in the semitic angelic hierarchy.
In any case, we live in a magickal universe so we obviously can’t rule out the magick here. It’s default; build up your charge of enthusiasm with some intent and poof… not to say “creating your own reality” is easy!! Or rather, Re-creating (into) your Desired reality. Another story….
But it still appears no one has as yet “cracked the code”; if there was/is any code. We may be giving the rune’s author(s) a bit too much credit. I still find it slightly odd how absent astrological lore was from the old Norse etc.
I mentioned the idea of unfolding process, within an agricultural context. Sounds feasible and further this might actually resonate with the much earlier ideas of cosmic creation. Seems to me everything subsequent to the original creation myths was corrupted and or mystical accretion.
It also seems to me now that there isn’t much behind the stave’s shapes themselves either (as in applied systematic magickal codes for the unconscious). Take Isa; ’tis ubiquitous!! But then again, we may be talking self programming (for such an effect, as per any system). I’m also still not sure to what degree the Rune Poems were mere memory aides. All this conjunct the ubiquitous fact that much was simply imported……
In any case I’m still into them as they say. Runes, as to the celestial based symbol arrays are of the earth put simply. That in itself is significant. You’d think it may be more advantageous to focus on the celestials but I’m learning that it may be better to ground yourself in the Mother. So we’ve a system here still worth considering after all….. So hail the Vanir!!
Mark, oder Vorith
Hello Mark:
Thanks for taking the time to post here and on other pieces. I just love it when someone new discovers this site and goes through reading and adding thought provoking comments! I haven’ had much time to comment lately but I’m looking forward to a cahnce over Yuletide. Lots to contemplate in recent posts.
Hi and thanks. My prose is careless at times due to well, time.
Forgot to mention another oddity. Note the fact that there were many rows which were almost identical to the Elder Futhark. That is, none of these rows, as far as my research goes, had lore accompanying the individual staves. But perhaps it’s all been lost. Easy out.
Another high strangeness is that as much as the Hebrew letters have been a major aspect of the Western Mysteries, they seem to never be applied in any way akin to runic practices. And have you ever seen a divination deck based on the Hebrew letters exclusively!? They seem to be employed in Every Other way…..
Well down to the heart, I think the idea of risting and staining runes on the exposed roots of certain trees is a rather cool practice. More so if you’ve spent time or shared energy with the tree. I’ve dealt with some trees that seemed very ornery. Yes, they were older, bigger and almost threatening…. so I can’t help think on that scene in the Wizard of Oz in the enchanted apple tree patch. I suspect that the authors there knew some of the old ways.
Tschuss
Tyriel, sharing… awesome post.
I am really grateful for this site… so much invaluable insight and a great resource in helping me better understand the language of the runes. I feel strongly about the use of esoteric “tools” as just that… implements to help excavate our inner landscapes to gain a better understanding of ourselves and our place in the all. :) It is all so fluid and personal.
With thanks…
Adriane
I quite agree. Have you ever heard of a series of runic courses by White Willow?
Greetings!
I just found this site. The spirit here mirrors mine. I have studied both Ragnar’s and Erdred’s work and it’s good. But I also came to the conclusion that you can’t box up the runes into a standardized system. The only real diploma, or certificate of mastery, is your own experience of mastery from using the runes. We each have to prove the runes in our experience and thus make them real.
My basic practice is tp pick a rune for the day, focus on it in the morning and then note what happens during the day that connects with this. For instance, this morning I picked Nauthiz. I have been thinking deeply on ‘what are the runes?’ I’ve been learning runes for six years and this question keeps coming back. So it’s fitting that I found this site today. I’ll be checking back regularly.
“I have been thinking deeply on ‘what are the runes?’ I’ve been learning runes for six years and this question keeps coming back.”
>>> Sounds like it’s time to move on then. But seriously, I think many of us have a sentimental fascination with runes. They are notorious for their silence; in this kind of direct quest. The gods/esses and myths help enliven…
An enthusiastic approach always works. It’s the same however; a god or rune. They are thought forms mainly. Now if you can commune with the intelligence of say a storm (or even the gamut of self aware higher evolved beings) – with it’s anthropomorphed imagery in your mind’s eye – that is another story. They likely won’t be dealing with runes or old Norse etc.
The runes are mostly, imo, Culturally charged. That, is the stuff folks are resonating with first and foremost. Not, some primeval hyperborean runic truths of the creation of the universe. We are all about finding this latter but I doubt it’s in the staves.
I chose that word carefully, staves. I still think there’s something neat going on here and hope it’s more than imagination. I used to trip hard and one of the recurring themes was how the nordic (or AS or Aryan, the damn group as a whole) current (no racist here) had some kind of direct tie or act to play as regards both physical and spiritual evolution. Something like an Odin current that doesn’t necessarily oversee anything but is poised, as it were, on the leading edge of evolution.
I actually saw something hinting at this via…um David Icke’s work. Still, it appears others may know what I’m referring to. Anyone have any inkling what I’m on about?
“I have been thinking deeply on ‘what are the runes?’ I’ve been learning runes for six years and this question keeps coming back.”
>>> Sounds like it’s time to move on then. But seriously, I think many of us have a sentimental fascination with runes. They are notorious for their silence; in this kind of direct quest. The gods/esses and myths help enliven…
I keep boiling it down to basics. Runes are a symbolic medium that facilitate communication with the Gods, the Higher Self. I studied Kabala and Tarot. I can appreciate the intellectual brilliance of this system, but it never felt like ‘home’. The runes feel native to me. There’s a familial / familiar connection. The runes opened me up to a higher consciousness within a folkish context. I am experiencing a growing synchronicity as I use the runes, especially when combined with ritual. Each rune has some kind of specific value, be it symbolic or practical.
I’ve started to think of runes as kind of power tools to help us shape personal reality and thus the reality of Midgard. I’m a builder, so this analogy comes natural to me. I use all kinds of tools; hammer, drill, power saw, etc to build something from a plan, a blueprint. They all do different things, and each has its own unique application and utility. That’s my current take on runes.
Hiya. Cold out there so hope you’re not on a roof etc. I do landscaping, tho not today or tomorrow for that matter, here in Mass…. Anyway, I was trying not to sound too cynical. Good thoughts yours and I do agree, having given years to hermetic kabbalah. That’s astrology, tarot and the Tree for the most part and all an excellent way to spin your mental masturbatory wheels… I suppose if you’re not going to do the long, drawn out, super elaborate rituals you may as well drop it. I’m in the middle of a Jyotish course which is Vedic astrology…
I’ll have to totally agree that most if not all my significant mystical experiences as well as synchronicity, has been via Norse type imagery. I can’t say runes themselves directly, as much. As mentioned, I need to acknowledge the Aesir and or Vanir or even local land spirits to get things going.
Well, there’s the higher self to, if I have one. And by this I mean all the above are essentially labels. When I say I need to acknowledge or connect, I may simply mean getting “into the zone” or non local-ness. To “facilitate communication” is, for me, a matter of getting into the zone by whatever means.I still think most of this is, generally, a mind science with decidedly enchanting props and focus aides (say Enochian).
I still give time to the Tree’s correspondences – hoping to find reflections in other more rigorous systems such as aether physics and or the new vortex math etc. This latter makes the Tree’s schematic like a kinder garden exercise. And how many variants of the Tree are there?
What has discouraged me the most, and this may be an indication of my own deficits, were scholarly works and posts by seasoned researchers. The consensus is that practically all info about runes (use) today is wrong. The Armanen system is just another contrivance. Runes themselves were, for the most part, Not used in Direct spell craft. Some say bind runes (in magickal apps) is another recent invention….Etc.
Curious about Sigdrifamal in all this.
There’s always folks who realize that Magick can be anything. As in pick your symbol set. So runes are as good as any other symbol array. So as I ended my last post, there’s something going on here but still not sure what it is. It could be ancestral streams. Perhaps a genetic link but I still like Jung’s observation that enthusiasm can get any psychic show going. So in the end, I think most of this is our own doing.
Runes are Culturally loaded as mentioned. So in some sense, it’s simply a matter of Style.
There’s also the item of importation. Thor and his Hammer sounds suspiciously like Jupiter and Bolt. Odin, an Indo-European god of death. Etc. Then there’s the evolution of all these characters – enabled by fanciful writers (“with an eye on the times”).
Oh yes, there are a few works claiming that one of the secrets behind the stave’s names is the timings. Timings which were applied to the preparation of herbal concoctions. Sounds both neat and ludicrous. But this specific item is from well seasoned researchers and it must be that they only have half the story.
Well it’s a bit like the Russian Front here. No tanks which is nice…
Regards, Mark
The Asatru path works for me in a way that Kabala etc never did. For one thing, Qabalah is Jewish, or it was taken over and given a completely Jewish ‘personality’. I tried to make it work for a long time, but you can’t fit a square peg int o a round hole.
Runes are familial. They feel comfortable, like they’re part of me in a strange way. You mentioned Jung; well, his theory of the Collective Unconscious includes the folk soul. You can’t bypass the folk soul. To my thinking it is a distinct ‘realm’ within the Collective Unconscious to which we are bound by ties of blood and culture; Othala.
Yet, these days, if you are of European ancestry you are in the cross hairs of political correctness and multi-culturalism. The runes are our ancestral inheritance. They are unique to us as a people. Others may well use them, but whether that works is another question.
The last two books I got from Edred are very scholarly. That is well and good, but scholars do not necessarily magicians make. Magic is in the blood.
Runes are the language of the folk soul realm of the Collective Unconscious. Our Gods and Goddesses are our high kin, our exemplars, or, as the Germans would say, ‘unser Vorbild’.
What faith.I don’t think it’s all that clear cut. But then again, I’ve no familial roots and some of my chakras are blown out. I may have been influenced by other readings which seem to have had an effect. That each person’s prior incarnations could be well near anything (within reason), from not only any culture but species. I think this latter may apply to our Ultimate paths down through the eons (if it actually does work that way). But otherwise, it’s way too limiting for our higher selves for gaining Varied experience, which is what the friggin Game is supposedly all about.
I think one may simply resonate due to their presently being within a particular gene set; this time round. Not sure, but NDE and regression therapy does not seem to support this tribal lineage idea.
And there’s that funny item about ancestral worship; of kin who’ve already reincarnated (as an eskimo)!
But I’m not drawing lines here. I’m not cutting 2×8′s either. My gut agrees with you. Or wants to. I’m full blooded Celtic but “work” with the Norse deities more.
Moving from speculations, what are the two books? I’ve just his Handbook and RuneLore. I never open the former anymore (as I’m seeing magick books as almost childish today – not magick but the books if that makes snese). I’ve also “Pierced By The Light” by Rig Svenson. Any other books on deck – besides a few from RunaRaven I simply must get – are those hefty priced scholarly tomes as these little paper backs are so much fluff speculation.
Of course I’ve many books on hermetic kabbalah etc and grimoires. I was totally into this last school of the Solomonic Tradition. I’m a bit lazy tho when it comes to acquiring all those props. Don’t need any more demonic influences as I’ve enough as it is.
I like Jung. However he was still nonetheless rehashing. All this is very old science, suppressed. The entire school of Psychology was and is an imposition for social engineering agendas. Note the state of affairs today with pharma and shrinks. This is by design as you may know.
Take the Tavistok Institute. The singular motive behind “Psychology” was for mass manipulation purposes.
In any case, Jung was reworking or transposing ancient ideas into contemporary parlance.
There’s collective pools surely. But the Demarcations of, are still speculative. It may in fact be the Noosphere, which I think is a bit beyond tribal lines.
In any case, your thoughts are getting me back into all this. I’ve been learning german and see they were All about gendered article cases!!
Oh, do you mainly use the elder futhark? There are quite a few rows out there to choose from. And um, ice is ice or isa. No mystery there…. but for the stave glyph. This glyph seems to have been mainly used to convey higher realms into lower or connection of. This and or the world column or Irminsul. That is, not ice.
So again, it’s up to us to decide. No, I’m not a nihilist.
Regards, Mark
It’s so good to see this post still generating discussion! I also personally enjoy knowing that there are people out there, in all kinds of places and occupations, going about their day contemplating the runes – makes me smile. I want very much to make time to go through all the posts again and add thoughts. This seems a good place to start.
Let me add a little bit to the discussion of connections to the runes and Nordic traditions. I think that the idea of kin and ancestral links run very strongly through the symbolism connected with the staves. It is also a major part of Celtic culture. However, and it’s a pretty big But – when wondering why we might feel resonance with these traditions we must remember that the Celts and various of the Germanic tribes had fairly substantial empires in times past. Then there were all those invaders of the northern climes. The Celts even seemed to make it a mission to mix the blood ( hard to say if they realized it made strong and pretty babies or if it was sheer arrogance about being Celt). Either way, today, pretty much anyone, anywhere could have northern blood drumming in their ears and minds! What I’m saying is it doesn’t matter. It is what resonates with us. Many f us will be drawn to more than one tradition and want to blend the philosophies for our 21st century lives. Again, the history of the Celts that we do have suggests that tradition was very open to that (possibly it led to their downfall). Surely though, it has to be the way of hope for the 21st century?
Following from my last comment, I don’t think we want to clear our shelves of anyone’s attempt to investigate and understand the ancient mysteries, Sure we need to think critically and ultimately rely on our inborn intuition because we don’t have perfect evidence and never will. I believe that we have to rebuild a way of being in this world – one that stops us from destroying ourselves and our environment. So keep on thinking out there and keep on writing here so we can all grow stronger.
Ok, I’ll write. About 30 minutes ago I slipped on the ice and almost broke my damn wrist. And I’m jamming in a few hours.
Anyway, um yes. It’s a choice, as in all in the mind. I’ll still peruse kabbalah….kinda torn between the two.
I simply think style has a lot to do with it. It’s from conditioning… Take a system and what do we have? Words (with exclusive language bias) and Imagery. We are simply “resonating” with what appeals to us. Same as liking butterscotch as to lemon. Not much more mysterious than that I think (as all systems really go on about the same thing).
I like the way the golden dawn laid everything out. At the same time, it is a huge redundant morass of comparative symbolism which will waste your time sure enough. Seems to me the only folks who truly benefit from all that are authors who rehash the $tuff. Being fair tho, I don’t really know as I stopped even the LBRP.
Ya, landscaping. My computer edu didn’t help much, being the shy introvert perhaps. Thank god as I realized I could never sit in a chair for 8 hours everyday. Was planning to get my CDL and drive but same applies there even worse. Tho I don’t like exhaustion under a hot sun, working with the land is perfect….especially when pondering runes and Vanir etc. Well, there is the rain but I’m trying my best to avoid chemical laden environments. I worked on yachts once and that’s all it was.
Anyway, I have found that the Younger Futhark has something about it which has helped me maintain enough energy to get through some trying days. Not sure if it’s simply intellectual musings (meaning distraction via fantasy) or something deeper. This was much more pronounced in the Younger row (as to the elder).
I’m trying to see if I can create a servitor. Props and ritual gesture seems to have their place. At the same time, I think both are ultimately unnecessary. Now this thinking might be sabotaging my own efforts!!
My belief is that it’s more about energy and it’s manipulation. We do this via our own psychic energy via focus and intent. Rather than type all this out I’ll just ask for some advice in this. There are some books on “creating magickal entities” but after all the books I’ve already read it’s time to figure something out for myself. I’ve started the process but it doesn’t seem to be working, as of yet. I’m likely a bit too undecided on what the exact function will be and what it will do during “down time”.
Thanks, Mark
Going back through posts I see Henry from rune-net is here. Hiya, surely you recognize my email (@ rune- net). Indeed, improving on my guitar gets me there…….
Just a note, the email you leave when posting a comment is not shown to the public, it’s for administrative purposes only. You are effectively anonymous except to me, so that random psychotics can’t contact you at their leisure. ;)
-Tyriel
Well said. Building a name is what the runes are really, The runes and myths teach honor, respect, dignity, at al.. They transform you over time. This very post might be rewritten as an entry guide.
Thank you Tyriel
I daresay there’s a lot that could be and needs to be rewritten on the site! Heeeeellllppp meeeeeee! :)
ok I will try working it into a sharable doc this week
I like the way you most of you think. Lots of common sense here.
I really applaud your attitude too, Tyriel. You sound like a true teacher; you convey information and concepts, but you also encourage freedom of thought and interpretation. To me, that is a real teacher. I was told that the runes would be a good idea for me but I was not interested. Then there was a strange awakening and the runes came to me. I have read quite a few books and gathered quite a lot of info and still seek more insights, however I also have managed to go into a place where I felt I could understand the runes from my own personal perspective – it may not be the same as others, but I feel it rings true for me and that it does not in any way clash with the nature or meaning of the runes. I also believe this information was given to me. I feel truly blessed and yet, I still don’t really know what to make of it all nearly 6 or 7 years later!
Thank you, Kristen. Am I a teacher? A matter of perspective. I think I am just one of you — but I take really good notes and share them with my classmates. LOL ;)
Something against random psychotics? Please explain the inexcusable reason for thy hybrid moniker Tyriel. Asatru my foot! Heh
I think runes, still, are what we’ve read them to be. That is, others’ opinions. Is it significant that there was no established tradition?
So henceforth sirs, let this rune, um symbol “^_+//>” mean sacred tree ring counting. You might want to check with the gothi at Uppsala first. But they’ll have to hang and cut a few hundred folks or so before they’ve an answer.
Any votes for the enlish futhorc? I love those sacred runes representing dipthongs!
All in jest, kinda, Mark
I’m a random psychotic, Mark. But I learned how to communicate clearly, that’s all!
I think that runes take a lifetime and possibly several to learn, none of the books show any unique insight, although Galina Krasskova’s Runes was interesting to read, i think each of us find a way to interpret them to mean what we think, they change with each caster…and no matter what course we take it is up to us to define our own knowledge. BTW: our kindred just changed our courses so now you can take two different path options and electives, it is very intensive and does not fool around…we use a few traditional sources, but also allow personal sources to come through…showing our own work and how we arrived at that meaning…i think it would be a good course, i am still developing it as i keep learning more, even after 9 years in runes you still learn, it never stops…
Hense why some rune masters go insane, they are kind of like Odin, constantly being fueled by the desire to know, the hunger to find answers, and yet those answers are just out of reach…enough to drive you mad!
There was one thing I liked about Krasskova’s ‘Theory of the Runes’ and it wasn’t the offerings of blood part (maybe just an excuse for cutting?). It was how she treated the runes, and the ‘energy things’ they represented as living, as intelligent.
I don’t know how productive it is to do so, but it’s an ‘impression’ I get sometimes. Although, it’s dangerous to anthropomorphize — too easy to project your unconscious onto things. My system is about claiming your intelligence/wisdom as your own, not outsourcing it to gods, spirits, energies, etc. unnecessarily. (Though certainly, it is useful to have the ability to do so at will.)
But Odin wasn’t ‘insane’, not in the Havamal. He was exceptionally street smart. Take a read of it again and look: a very call it as you see it kind of guy. The wanderer. Invisible to those who could not meet him at that ‘common sense and decency’ level. It is only after detailing much of that street smarts that he reveals how he hung on the tree and took up the runes.
Going ‘insane’ is an imbalance of his teachings. Odin is a god of sanity and reason, of clear mindedness, of clarity, despite his hunger to find answers and know.
It was only until I took responsibility for my mental health that I was able to contribute something that approached wisdom back into the world. Something to think on.
Oh I would agree, I was being sarcastic…but there is a slight madness to the idea of collecting the runes, any sane person would have likely exp. moments of insanity even if they are a god…I am fully aware of my mental state…and I agree, if you don’t have yourself in balance then your runes will likely not be too, notice I put likely because I believe that most of our knowledge about them is theoretical…
And btw, i still think that some rune masters have gone insane despite the fact that this may not be part of Odin, but if you look at many of the shaman aspects, it is possible that many shamans were somewhat insane, I mean not every brain is wired to see into other dimensions, I would say that most shamans or seers have had or experienced some trama, or event that would have rendered them insane if they did not accept it…and so it is with Odin, he could have gone insane but didnt
but, i also agree with the runes are alive theory, it works for me, they do seem to be thier own entity or thing…that lives….just an impression, i cannot prove it, but they seem to be…
I would agree, i just after reading a number of rune books, think that there is just a touch of near maddness at times, Odin does also have the ability to grant this state and I think it is not neccessarily always an imbalance, you may need to seperate from reality at times, i think we use too many of our known words to describe things, so it is difficult to understand for sure what states were like…but if you look at any other culture for the answers, many shamans, prophets, divination specalists whatever, they all were considered to have something wrong with them, yes they were respected, but their gifts were often thought of as an affliction in many cultures, so it could in theory indicate that to some degree one would have some sort of pre-condition that affected the brain…there are some good books that describe this better than i can…
But, I am really enjoying this group! Keep up the posts!
I wonder how many zen masters are insane? I think this insanity comes from the fact it’s all information. It doesn’t ultimately lead anywhere as it’s part of the greater illusion. This is more a religion it seems. An intellectual yet mystical Sop. Sometimes, yes, a much needed diversion from corporate hell on earth.
As to “create your own reality” it’s “create your own meaning”. Sounds nihilistic. But I like one zen master’s coined phrase, “opening the hand of thought”. We simply think and ponder too much. I’ve found this doesn’t lead anywhere unless it’s on a specific mundane problem. I suppose…that’s why they incorporated rune yoga into the system. You have to get the body involved as the left brain doesn’t cut it.
New rune alert; (&><)
Which means; Berserker in the area. Key phrases; run, hide, yell for help, fight, die. With a bit of erulian insight and meditation I've pierced through to the esoteric core meaning; how to engage the fight or flight mechanism.
Marc
A compulsive need to think is a sickness, that’s one of zen’s messages. Is the aim of zen to be insane? No, not at all. No doubt many managed their insanity this way for centuries.
I agree, we create our own meaning. But we have a hand to play in our own reality as well — at least a minor say. But it’s enough say to determine whether we will live in squalor or wealth, weakness or health.
Engaging the fight or flight mechanism would be hidden within Uruz, no need to invent an additional one for that. Remember, the young had to go out and slay an Auroch with a knife and not much else before they would be considered a man. Talk about engaging fight or flight!
Rune study has a very stabilizing influence in my life as part of my Asatru connection. This path is about roots. Roots make for stability. Runes are practical tools to help deal with life’s obstacles. Life is just one giant obstacle course. The point is to win through to victory in whatever obstacle course you are involved in. You are on the right track if you are getting more confident,healthy, secure, happy. Why study anything unless it makes your life better? Life is not an abstract proposition. Life is real. Challenges are real. As European peoples our connection with our gods, and the runes, help us to make the most of this life. These are our roots. If you want stability in your life then get back to your roots.
I agree. Stability, focus, control — this is our own power over our fate, and to meet that fate with integrity, understanding and courage.
As Darren Lynn commented, I liked Tyriels comments about building a name for ourselves rather than focussing on collecting titles. This approach is one of the things that we do know from documented history was part of the northern traditions of choosing leaders.
I also agree with Mike. I think he got right back to the core of it, simply stated. I also think this is Tyriel’s central point the runes do have core symbolic meanings and values that are essentially agreed upon by Runsters at his point in time. The degree to which these have shifted over time and across cultures we cannot be sure of. But does it matter? As Mike said, they are to provide us with stability in the way we are in our lives. Is that just a religious sop, Marc? I suppose it depends on how it is followed. For me it is most definitely not a religion. The runes are a symbolic guide that helps me focus on and manifest positive spiritual energies – and block those that I recognize as negative.
Yoga is a great form of exercise and there is no harm in connecting that practice t runic practice. But I don’t think there was any need to ‘introduce’ it. The impetus to healthy bodies ( as well as healthy minds) is present in the runes anyway.
Finally, we should always evaluate with critical minds – that is how understanding grows. but I don’t think that critical reflection has to manifest as negativity, sarcasm or cynicism. And, for the most part, that’s what I love about the discussions on Rune Secrets – we all offer our thoughts with respect for each other and openness to new ideas and learning together.
Titles are exterior labels which may or not reflect actual inner substance. But when someone gets out there and does something, accomplishes something, then he is making his name. “He made his name when he accomplished such and such…” The name then reflects actual inner status/substance.
I practice a form of ‘Chi Kung’ in the morning; about 15 minutes. But now, when I stand in the ‘Standing Tree’ posture I visualize Ygdrasill, and That I am standing within Ygdrasill.
I breathe in specific rune energies, e.g. Uruz, and incorporate that into my being as, in the case of Uruz, ‘Health’.
I’m experimenting with the runes of Sowilo -Fire- , Ansuz -Air -, Laguz – Water, and Uruz – Earth. The four elements.
I was joking about zen and insanity, naturally. My joke about a new rune was to convey relativity. Do we think there’s something completely unique, innately magickal and as a Hyperborean sacred mystery from above Asgard concerning the rune isa?
“This path is about roots…” Could be that “roots” are a further external source.
Seems to me life is a bowl of luck. Chance trumps merit etc. Not always but…
Well it’s an interesting suggestion but I think you need to be clearer Mark. As to the Hyperborean, every culture seems to have it’s Earthly divine kingdom. There’s Shambhala, Shangri’la, Atlantis. It’s an interesting archetype, the ‘hidden’ city.
To me, Asgard represents the spread of consciousness from the previous unconscious or proto-conscious realm (giants). The Aesir gods (knowledge, technology, militancy) triumphing over the more agricultural and fertility based older Vanir gods then proceed to peacefully co-exist within Asgard.
I can’t answer your question about Isa though. Can you make it clearer? You loaded your reply with a few too many allusions and ideas for me to successfully understand 100%, but have patience. ;)
This thread has picked up… warum?
Sorry for speaking in parables. My whole point in the matter reflects this earlier quote from I forgot who, “notice I put likely because I believe that most of our knowledge about them is theoretical…”
That is it. We are, apart from direct conditioning via others opinions, mostly projecting onto them….what we feel they should or might be. Now what if the Elder Futhark was actually the sacred row of the Illopdwag Indian Tribe from Hobboken New Jersey? Kinda takes the mystical fair out of them.
I’d better stop now as this will be yet another obscure rant to our kith and kin. Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t be here if I wasn’t still hooked. But I think it’s mostly us. Our ideas and expectations.
Sop to prove my theory, let’s use Isa to warm up some coffee….
@Mark next time your inner thought world gets too ‘hot’, too fast. too mercurial, focus on ISA. Just slow down and calm down with ISA.
Runes are tools that we can use to shape our reality. That’s part of our purpose for being here in Midgard; to help create order out of chaos. Chaos is ever-present – just look at the news – so this becomes a daily task.
Good advice, and I’ve been definitely been there. Mark, slow down and communicate one clear idea at a time. Better yet if they are on-topic. Chaos is easy, like Mike said, it’s ever-present.
Is everyone interpreting my prose as not having a clue about runes? I’m saying what I do cause I’ve been at this.
Order out of chaos… where the Hegelian Dialect is modus operandi. Fact is, they create chaos to get their subsequent order.
Here in the US they want to install (more) body scanners that shoot rays Deeper into the body. This after the fuss about what they’ve been doing already. This is blatant and they may as well start lining us up against the wall. Chaos out of order spells hell on earth for the commoners. But we understand your point. Yours is not the political kind.
What we need is to find another lost rune row Without meanings or names : ) Then have us tune in and see what we find. It can’t be the stave’s shape as there’s too many variations. But more importantly, these variations can be found in other culture’s systems where those meanings have zilch to do with futhark meanings.
Isa is a perfect example as the vertical line most always represented (the merging of) heaven and earth. Thus we have Irminsul.
Mar(c)K
-Mark, I think you ideas about Order and Chaos are quiet interesting. I have always viewed Chaos as being the necessary yet vast and uncontrollable unconscious, unmanifest potential that animates the universe (and does contain a sort of order in itself), and Order being the conscious will understanding (to the small point that it is capable of understanding) that vast potential, and directing and influencing it. I think that it is a lack of understanding of that vast potential that causes the kind of infuriating injustices perpetrated not only by our western governments, but any number of people who gain power over others. Most people familiar with magick and manipulating their Wyrd can tell you that there is more than enough in the world for everyone to get what they need/desire without having to kill or take it or oppress anyone else to get it. It is only through ignorance (as the Buddha might say) that we perceive by worsening anyone else lot, we better our own. I believe it is through the understanding and direction of will (or order) that as a people we can on day move past these needless difficulties cause by misunderstanding, and I believe the Runes are a wonderful tool to understanding the mysteries behind our experiences. I fully agree with the fact that the Runes are and convey what we believe them to be/show, and that their reality is dependent on our group consciousness for it’s form and function (just as our world is dependent on our global consciousness for it’s form and function), but that’s the beauty of it. I don’t think another undiscovered Rune row is required allow us to tune in and see what we find, I believe that we can do that, and redefine, and reassess the Runes we have now as many times as we feel we need to, and thus our new understandings will help shape the group consciousness of Runic meaning/awareness and direct how the Runes continue to evolve over time. That being said, by the very same logic, we could all just draw up our own staves that represent our individual understanding of our environments to a similar effect. I believe the act of tuning in reveals less about what energy lies within the Runes, and more about what lies within the undiscovered regions of our minds, and why wouldn’t we share our revelations about existance through common symbols with our kin.
We could indeed all draw up our own staves. And we do — deep inside us we have our own personal symbols and images. But communication is impossible without shared symbols and shared meaning.
Confusion arises when we use our own personal language — we need to meet people half way, be clear, and understand that it doesn’t work to riddle our speech with obscurity and inaccessible language, expecting others to play on our terms. That might work for poetry, but not for simple day to day communication.
The goal of my writing is to make it easy for people to access my meaning. The goal of some ‘rune teachers’ seems to be the mystification of their teachings. I am more and more convinced that the refusal to patiently and clearly communicate (when that is what is being demanded of us) reveals an underlying insecurity.
Never force your reader to look things up — and if one must ‘prove’ one’s intelligence, do so with clarity and focus, one point at a time, with a shared set of meanings.
Interesting post. I like your description of chaos and order. The value of the inherited traditional runes is that they are part of a continuum of our folk soul. The oldest, most ancient and primordial runes may be different from the Elder Futhark, yet they are all related in some kind of sequence. Guido von List came up with his 18-row Armanen Futhork while temporarily blinded. Maybe he actually did recover an ancient version of the runes….
In any event, we need not invent anything new but rather draw upon the primordial depths of the runes. That practice seems to waken something within.
The runes are a common language of the inner mysteries. We may interpret them in our own unique 21st century ways, yet the meanings we derive/create follow some kind of deep pattern that is part and parcel of each rune. Rune meanings are not arbitrary, although they appear not to be limited by fixed interpretations.
If I could chose a small staff to write for Rune Secrets, I’d probably want Mike on it. Probably ;)
As to the ‘we may interpret them in our own unique 21st century ways’ I must respond with a question I mean you to take seriously: Where is the past? Do you believe we can time travel to it? Certainly if it were in a place still, apart from where we are now, its perspective would largely be irrelevant, no?
And yet you’re right — there is something ‘deeper’ something that links the people who must have lived then to us. But if it exists anywhere, I must argue that it exists in the present, and must be found there. Even those ancient stones we often catch ourselves revering as sacred, they too are 21st century, and seen through the lens of the present. How could they be otherwise? They didn’t look like the ruins and artifacts they do now, to the people who made them. They were something else to them, and cannot be that to us.
I fear that we must cope with this loss of our collective past, our history — that it represents a deeper loss we each feel individually, about ourselves. If that is what you mean by our folk soul, by the ‘primordial depths’ then sure. But our folk soul and primordial depths both are mistaken if they seek to recreate the past. No new memories can be made save by action in the present.
Anyhow we’re getting entirely off topic, a problem I hope to somehow solve with the new social interface to the site. For now we’re restricted to the comment system.
The past is in the present. All the layers in the Well of Urd exist now; that’s what’s so wyrd about it. I am who I am now because of my past, which is present. Erdred wrote some good stuff on this in….’The Germanic Way’ (?) . It’s a booklet. He really nailed the time sense in a way that made it real to me.
The present is but the crest of the wave of the past. He points out the importance of the past in the Germanic Way, and the relative unimportance of the future as a causal energy in the moment. We make the future NOW, based upon what we have made with with our life (lives) in the past. It’s as if the actions of the past have created deeply set patterns of thought, feeling, values, behavior that we operate with in dealing with the present.
Runes are, according to Tradition, at the very deepest levels of the past…..here and now.
And I see a lot of backward thinking coming from the habits and assumptions of Tradition. It’s no longer credible (speaking for myself) to romanticize the past. I acknowledge it first as a psychological construct, then as an actual actor. Of course one must take into account the power of momentum. Could we stop on a dime? Perhaps not. Can we crash into a brick wall..? Time will tell!
Runesecrets are on fire!
This torrent of ideas and opinions is magnificent.
Though, Tyriel it’s getting more and more difficult to follow the discussion.
Instead of a centralized article and the comments below, wouldn’t be more easy to have discrete discussions (aka comments under discrete triggering articles) about eg technical issues, community main lines, community members and their interests etc?
I agree Vanr on all your points.
I’m finding it especially challenging as I’m mostly trying to follow along on my e-mail alerts (while supposedly doing paid work), so don’t know who’s replying to what! Still, it sort of illustrates what I see as Mike’s point (which I agree with) about the interrelations of past and future with our present (as in all over the place!). How Mike put it is essentially how I’ve always understood (attempted to that is) the three Norns and Wyrd/Orlog.
I think that Tyriel is making a different point though – also one I agree with – that while we can draw on traditional thought and any ancient knowledge running through our current bodies and minds, we have to create our own understanding resonate with this 21st century time.
There is a lot more I am thinking about this time in Midgard and comments entwined in this thread about what is/is not sane?
Anyway, wild [and a little crazy :-)] though this discussion is, obviously many of us are thoroughly enjoying it. It’s great to know we are all out there thinking about this together!
Hmmmm….
I wanted to set this comment under “A Social Network Exclusively For Rune Study?”. Misplaced, but still valid.